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Post by McF on Sept 26, 2008 8:11:54 GMT -5
Found the article in the BMW Journal (May edition which I'd lent to someone). Visit www.hids4u.co.uk/store/home.php?cat=7 to see the motorbike pages. It gives a range of different product, unfortunately, I'm pushed for time and unable to research more at present. Could even be worth a call to the provider. Article says how simple it was to fit and the marked improvement. Even comments on the power consumption and says the light only uses circa 35W instead of 60 etc. I can scan the article and post if anyone wants to see it
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micawber
Full Member
40 years on the road and still in the dark.
Posts: 52
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Post by micawber on Sept 26, 2008 16:57:31 GMT -5
On the face of it, McF, that link you posted would seem to lead to the ideal solution. 35 watts, 300% more light, simple to fit. There is a drawback though. As I seem to recall from a long running thread on, I think, Visordown a couple of years ago (and this may have been rectified by the company you linked to) that HID lamps do not light up immediately like tungsten or halogen bulbs when the power is applied. This would stop you using your headlamp flasher, for instance. This is fine for HIDs that replace single filament bulbs as in cars where the dip beam is on all the time, with possibly a halogen bulb for main beam so it can be switched off and on quickly. The number of times it is switched on and off can affect the life of a HID light. Some car manufacturers get round this by having a moveable reflector or shield inside the light unit that contains the HID light so the light stays on all the time. This is all very well for purpose made HID light units. But how to replace a twin filament bulb like a H4? As far as I can tell, the solution seems to be to make a single "filament" HID bulb that fits instead of a H4, with a built in solenoid which moves the bulb fractionally forward or back to simulate the main beam or dip filament positions. The light source in a HID bulb is in fact a high intensity arc which is why a ballast unit is needed to provide a high voltage, low current output. Therefore it stays lit all the time the bulb is on whether it is on dip or main beam. There used to be a number of cheap Chinese made units about and these may not have exact precision in positioning the bulb, so that dazzle was caused by light scatter. Hopefully, more expensive units should not suffer from this. Another problem is that the arc is not the same shape as a lighted filament so reflectors designed for filament bulbs may not be ideal for use with HID conversions: there may be plenty of light but the beam pattern could be poor. Lighting set ups with different light units for main beam and dip probably suffer less from this problem. Furthermore, HID lamps are supposed to have a different e-mark on the lens than filament lamps, and in the case of cars which are fitted with HID lamps from new, are supposed to have self levelling suspension or lamps, and headlight washers. I don't see how that could be applied to motorcycles! And I am pretty sure it does not stop young chaps in their Corsas, Saxos etc from retro fitting HIDs. In reality, you could only try it and see. It would take a very zealous MOT tester to be inspecting your headlamp for e-markings unless the light was outrageously too bright (HIDs come in different intensities which affects the colour of the light) or the beam pattern was way out. But if it doesn't work well with your reflector, it can be an expensive way to find out. Has anyone out there tried it with an NTV or Revere? Because if it works, it could be the best thing since sliced bread.
Another lengthy post from the weary finger of
Micawber.
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Post by dpmiller on Sept 27, 2008 3:43:47 GMT -5
I have a set of moving-capsule (single arc, hi and low beam) HIDs that I ran on the car for a while. Results would be better with a headlamp using the normal car E-code beam pattern (sloping cutoff) and complex reflector/ clear glass than with the OEM unit.
Plus, there aint room at the back of the headlamp for the large solenoid actuator that moves the capsule.
Best compromise IMHO is to upgrade the standard reflector to one of the clear lens variety- complete unit form a Bandit or the like, or one of the conversions for Minis that you'll find on Ebay- with a GOOD non blue tinted +30% bulb. That's a Vision Plus or Silverstar. I'd only consider the hassle of relays and heavier wiring if there is a noticeable voltage drop on that particular bike...
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micawber
Full Member
40 years on the road and still in the dark.
Posts: 52
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Post by micawber on Sept 28, 2008 14:42:40 GMT -5
I'm with you on keeping the simplest set up for most benefit dpmiller, (ie K.I.S.S. -Keep It Simple,Stupid) as the more there is, the more there is to go wrong. If I were to keep the standard headlamp shell and rim, what is there that would fit straight in? That would make life simpler. The standard reflector and beam pattern are not bad, and from experience with Bandit round headlights, those are not bad either. I have no experience with newer prism type reflectors, presumably with plastic lenses. For a number of years I had an old BSA 7 inch shell with matching rim using a Cibie Z beam light unit which I swopped from bike to bike, as it was that good. I don't know if there is a modern Cibie equivalent that would fit the NTV shell. I suppose it is just a matter of measuring the outer and inner diameter of the headlamp rim, and trawling the manufacturer's websites. Alternatively, a comlete unit could be a solution if cheap enough, as the existing shell is decidedly rusty on the inside. I am in danger of suffering Option Paralysis due to all the useful suggestions the original post has generated. What triggered the original question was that I have been riding and driving for many years now and have seen even the most modest hatchbacks improve their lighting so much in this time while bikes have seemed to fall behind. When I say that the biggest improvement that I have seen in bike lighting was when I had a Norton Commando with my first halogen headlight in 1976 you may begin to realise what I mean. Not many cars had halogen lights then but even the most commonplace cars now have Xenon halogen lights as standard, and the HID lights fitted to more expensive cars will inevitably trickle down to all but the cheapest cars eventually. What this means is that there is far more glare from car lights and most bikes do not come near to producing an equivalent quality of lighting. Perhaps some of the most expensive bikes may come near, but for most of us, we are the poor relations. At one time I used to ride a lot at night, not so much nowadays, but I want to make the most of what my bike will produce, as I am sure most on here do, without breaking the bank This is not just an NTV problem, it applies to many bikes with less useful lights than ours.
Micawber.
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Post by dpmiller on Sept 28, 2008 16:15:18 GMT -5
I've put a clear-front unit into mine. With a bit of filing for clearance, a standard 7" unit will sit into the NTV's shell and rim. IIRC, I had to use the retaining ring for an old sealed-beam (the bit hidden by the chrome rim, on a Mini or similar) to fix the lap to the rim.
So, a Z-beam or the Wipac alternative, or a clear-fronted complex-surface, can all go in.
I can try and get pics, of it might help?
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micawber
Full Member
40 years on the road and still in the dark.
Posts: 52
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Post by micawber on Sept 28, 2008 18:49:45 GMT -5
dpmiller, pics would be good. Thanks, micawber
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micawber
Full Member
40 years on the road and still in the dark.
Posts: 52
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Post by micawber on Oct 14, 2008 17:10:20 GMT -5
I've taken dpmiller's advice and bought a Wipac 7" light unit. It is what they term a "free form plastic light unit", e-marked and with side light aperture. The reflector does all the focussing, and the clear front lens just seems to keep the rain out. It looks strangely vintage, yet modern at the same time. It was simple to fit, and cost me £21, though £4.50 plus VAT of that was postage, from an internet Mini spares specialist. 1) It needed a sealed beam fitting ring to make it fit the original Honda rim but with a bit of thought, and bending back some of the unnecessary fitting tabs, no cutting or filing was needed. I bought this from a local Land Rover specialist for £11. 2) I had some W-clips left over from erecting a greenhouse earlier this year, so used several of those to hold the light unit/sealed beam ring assembly into the Honda rim. 3)The light unit came with a capless sidelight socket but I re used the Honda rubber ring to push into the hole so that I could just use the existing Honda sidelight as it has a cap type bulb holder. Otherwise, the original H4 bulb, rubber seal and connectors from the Honda light unit were all fitted to the new light unit.
I am actually using a 20W Halogen pilot light bulb as a running light so that is another reason for me to re use the Honda side light unit but otherwise there is no reason not to use the supplied capless bulb holder. How is the light in use? I've not done much night riding yet but so far it is promising. The main beam is like a spot light, with a far reaching beam, with some illumination at the sides. Dip is a very sharp flat cut off, with an upward kink to the left. Definitely better than the old Honda unit, but that had a cloudy reflector. I have some doubts about light intensity, but may try a different bulb once I've used it for a while. I need to evaluate it it over a few weeks. Pros - very light, inexpensive, easy to fit. Looks modern. Cons -plastic lens may not be as tough as glass re chippings, etc. Higher rating bulbs may be prohibited due to plastic construction.
I welcome your comments. Will post some pics in due course.
Micawber.
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micawber
Full Member
40 years on the road and still in the dark.
Posts: 52
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Post by micawber on Oct 15, 2008 5:09:41 GMT -5
Here are a couple of pics of the Wipac headlamp. And Micawber.
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Post by dpmiller on Oct 15, 2008 15:14:20 GMT -5
Good job, sir!
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