Tank Range ???

[derbyshirebill]

Won't it print voila then Jim?- do you have to use a musical instrument name instead?

[hovis]

Yeah liked the dog one !!!!!!!!!

Hovis

[micawber]

Hi!
I put in a query yesterday in General re: - Fuel Economy, before I spotted this thread in Technical. My three tankfuls since buying my '93 NTV650P a month ago have given me a) 213 miles (including 125 miles of motorway keeping well up with traffic) to reserve, b) 228 miles (including 116 miles of mixed A -road and dual carriageway with a pillion), and c) 230 miles (including 120 miles with camping gear and a pillion). Based on what I have read in this thread, that seems to be unusually good. Perhaps too good!
The reserve works fine, though the tap is stiff, and has got me 12 miles to a petrol station without running out. I've not risked going far on reserve on an untried bike. The only suggestion I can make for the range is that a previous owner might have shortened the main stand pipe in the tank to reduce the reserve, and give more range on the main tank. I've seen it done on bikes with a large reserve before. I can't prove this without taking the tap off.
The bike is standard, with the original stubby exhaust. Performance is good, accelerating from 80 -plus on the motorway to keep out of the way of traffic, so it's not restricted. Maybe I've just got a good one!
When I fill up I don't overfill it but I do make sure that it is full. If you top up the last bit of petrol you can see the level dropping in the filler neck and you can do this several times until the level drops to the base of the filler neck and goes no further. There must be a small air vent which allows this to happen, allowing a lot of air space inside the tank for expansion. I also fill it up on the centre stand, which must make a difference compared with filling it on the side stand.
I try to ride smoothly, using anticipation and not accelerating or braking unnecessarily, but keep moving without annoying traffic or overtaking aggressively. It's an NTV!
I'm not complaining about the range at all, but would like to hear if any one else has has similar experiences. Are different models more or less economical than each other? 600 vs 650, different lengths of Honda silencer, etc?
I'm all ears.

[buzzin]

Well, mine only does 225 km on a full tank, but that's because I still haven't synced the carbs and checked the valves....(Don't have the equiptment for the first, and the motivation for the second)
I fill her up like you described, however, I never put her on a stand at all when filling up....just sit on the bike till I am done.
Preferably at a petrol station that will allow me to do electronic payment at the pump itsself (direct debit) so I don't have to get off at all (not because I am lazy, but it safes a lot of time, and it's cheaper)

I does sound as if the standpipe is shortend to me.....but that's because the reserve is suppose to be rather large on the Revere (5 liters on a 19 liter tank). When I have emptied the normal setting I can just about fit 14 liter in....how much does yours take? (sorry, don't know how much that is in gallons....)

[micawber]

Buzzin, thanks for your reply.
If you are getting 225 km to reserve (140 miles) and are putting 14l in (3.1 imperial gallons) that works out at just over 45mpg. But according to both the Owners Handbook and the Haynes manual, the tank can hold 19 litres, with 2.5 litres in reserve, so should hold 16.5 litres (3.6 imperial gallons) once it is on reserve. I am basing my fuel consumption figures on 3.6 gallons from full to reserve, but haven't actually had the chance to measure how much goes in. Someday soon, I hope to run on to reserve near a petrol station and will be able to measure more accurately what goes in.
Meanwhile, I haven't needed to take the tank off yet, but when I do, I will certainly take the tap out and have a look at it. It may be that whatever the handbook says, there could be differences in the length of the standpipe between 600 revere and 650NTV models, and even different years or different batches from the same year! Even a couple of cm would make a lot of difference. Hopefully there is someone on this forum who might be able to tell us from experience.
Possibly my excellent tank range is at the expense of a tiny reserve -the furthest I've gone on reserve is 12 miles (19.2 km) and I might have ended up pushing it if I had done 12.5 miles!
Nowadays I don't fill up while sitting on the bike -some years ago I accidentally spilt petrol while doing this. If it gets in to your underpants it soon begins to sting! Not to mention the stink, and the hair raising prospect of that fuel sloshing around your battery terminals. Fortunately it was ok and I was able to rush home to change. However I have seen many bikers filling up like this since without any incidents, so I can't tell others not to do it.
To work out litres to UK gallons, remember that 4.5 litres equal 1 gallon, or divide gallons by 4.5 to get litres.

[micawber]

Actually, that last sentence should have said,"multiply gallons by 4.5 to get litres". Duuh!

[norfolknchance]

171 today & hit reserve
speeds between 70 to 105

[norfolknchance]

the other half gets about 165 a tank on her restricted NTV

why would a restricted bike be worse than a normal set up

P.S the restrictor is on the carb intake

[steadythebuffs]

Rarely get to reserve, but..

My 115 mile day is roughly split thus: 50mph limit for 30miles; 70mph for 70miles; 30mph for 15miles. I use anywhere between 7.5litres and 9litres, normally around 8ish.

That's 52mpg if I cane it on the mway, 62mpg sticking to the limits. No traffic usually.

Haynes reckons 42mpg, with 200 mile tank range - fat tester, flat tyres?

The chap I bought it from worked with a 200miles-find petrol policy

Hope this helps
Buffs

[derbyshirebill]

Hi Micawber. In response to yours being 'too good', it probably isn't, or we're both measuring something wrong:-
I've just been on a camping trip to Devon. Started off with a full tank and topped it up as I went along. On the way back I stopped and filled it up to the top. The tripmeter showed 508 miles and I'd put a total of 28 litres in the tank. That's over 80mpg!
Now, I went the pretty route down the Fosse Way, tootling along at 50 to 60 (hello trees, hello flowers), and the winds were favourable. Also my new radial front tyre is slightly less diameter than the old one, and mileometers aren't spot-on accurate anyway but, even so, I'm pretty impressed.
I don't think there are many 650's that will give you 250 economy.

[micawber]

Hello again.
Following my request for members' experiences on tank range there have certainly been wide differences in mileages achieved before top up. I would be pleased to get the economy which derbyshirebill has managed. It all helps to put my own experience in perspective.
I answered one of my own queries yesterday when running on to reserve at 220 miles near a petrol station, when I was able to get 16.5 litres in. So the capacity is as stated in the Owner's Handbook, and the petrol tap standpipe has not been "customised" by a previous owner for more range before reserve. Therefore my fuel consumption figures are accurate, and have not been expanded by having more fuel available than I had calculated.
Around 60 mpg is not bad going for a fairly hefty bike such as the NTV. How far can I stretch it on a leisurely day ride on A roads? I will let you know in due course.
The main benefit for me is that I can now set off on a trip knowing that I will not need to think about refuelling until I have reached 200 miles. That is useful when the cost of fuel varies in different parts of the country -I live in Mid Cheshire and though all fuel is expensive, it costs noticeably more for example in North West Wales.
A few years ago I did a mini tour with my brother to the South West and at the time had an MZ Saxon 251 with a 25 litre tank. It was a good feeling not having to refuel until just outside Minehead, and on the return refilling just outside Gloucester knowing that there would be plenty to get me home. Not many bikes since have given me that feeling -bike economy being relatively poor, and tank range limited. The worst thing is, bikers seem to just accept it as normal.
With motorcycling becoming sidelined as a leisure activity for the summer months, and non bikers expressing surprise when they find out that some riders do use bikes for transport all year round, it worries me that it will be too easy at some time in the future for ill thought out or even hostile legislation to make road motorcycling no longer viable. Just compare the practicality, range and economy of a modern Diesel car with what modern bike manufacturers claim to be "all rounders", let alone sportsbikes! (Rant over!)

[everydaybiker]

I know what you mean about bike economy (or lack of in some cases). But I guess if car engines were brought up to the level of tune of a bike engine - i.e. making around 100bhp or more per litre - they wouldn't do so well in the economy stakes. They'd also be less flexible and there'd be many numpty car drivers stalling all the time.

As has been said, not many 650cc bikes (or, perhaps any, other than the NTV) can match the fuel economy of a 250. I don't think my 250 Superdream of 20+ years ago did much better than 60mpg. Doing my 150 miles a day a general drop of 10mpg costs me another £60 a month!

Derek

[dpmiller]

Even diesels are heading towards the 100hp/ litre mark now- look at the likes of the BMW 535d. 2993cc and 286PS/hp...

[ilegalalien]

Assuming people have the correct profiled tyres on the front (should be a 80) not a 70, i had my NTV up to 135mph on a 70 n was well impressed till i discovered WHY, anyways suffice to say on a 70 speedo readings are faster (thus showing more miles). Fuel consumption has many variables.. carb jets and balancing, air filter, engine condition, plugs and coils, profile of rear wheel, road type and condition, and of course riding style. I have the same rule about milage... 180-200 from a full tank and it's time to line the house of comics pockets again. The fuel pipe in the tank is 95mm from the top to the large nut. I ran a 80 profile on the back when i was doing alot of motorway work and it did improve consumption. On my revere 650 (this has smaller inlets in the head) my fuel consumption varies from about 140-220 a tank depending on if cars are in the way (hehe), the bike will do 120 at a push but is no where as fast as my other 93 NTV but it does have better fuel consumption.

[arlo33]

Hi got my 94 650 with 43k on it about three weeks ago. First tank full lasted barely 130 miles onto reserve. Changed engine oil, air filter and reset the choke cable so that it wasn't always <on>. Second tank-full 185 Miles onto reserve, this a mixture of riding ; short journey>Two miles to work and back< twisty blatting and two up 80 mile trip plus a bit of tootling. Went onto reserve on the way back between Chepstow and Monmouth (Great road) late at night so had to keep going a further ten miles to home. Did a couple more next day to work and as I had to go the other way to the garage anyway I decided to push it a bit further and see if it would make it to the next station. It did but i couldn't hear much in the tank. That was on 220 miles and i managed to put 18.69L back in so thats about 35 miles on reserve and as much as i will do in future. think that works out about 59mpg which i don't think is too bad. Third tank is BP superunleaded which makes it much smoother and feels a bit more powerful. Hopefully the mileage should be better. Anyone got any idea if it it works?