pops
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by pops on Aug 26, 2007 16:02:07 GMT -5
Hi Buffs Glad you sorted it,I would suggest getting a replacement bleed asp and there is no need to tighten the bleed screw to tight.It.s just like the ones on your house radiator.
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Post by honda on Aug 27, 2007 13:15:07 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be getting on ok at present so I thought Id add another silly story. A man was riding down the Pacific coast highway in California when he heard a loud noise. God appeared to him and said. You have been a very good man and I think you deserve a wish. The man thought for a moment and said he would like a road accross the pacific to hawia as he loved to go there but would like to ride his motorcycle instead of flying. God thought for a moment and said he thought this would be an awfull drain on the worlds resourses so could he think of something else which would be of more benefit to mankind. The man thought for a while and then ask if God could give all the men in the world the ability to know what was wrong with their wives when they cried but said there is nothing wrong and what was wrong when the good lady was giving them the silent treatment. God thought for a while and replied. Is it a 2 lane or 4 lane highway you want
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Post by steadythebuffs on Aug 27, 2007 15:56:09 GMT -5
nice one I told Mrs Buffs. No response. Wonder what that means.
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Post by ntvnick on Aug 30, 2007 19:03:38 GMT -5
Useful tip that Pops. Having owned mostly Italian bikes, one of the areas that I have never had problems is with the Brembo calipers. However I have filed away your tip for the day that I tackle a brake rebuild and can't get the piston in.
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Post by steadythebuffs on Aug 31, 2007 16:02:45 GMT -5
nipple woes continue. The replacement also weeps a little fluid up past the thread so I wrapped thread in plumbers' tape, and everything looked fine overnight, but when I put the rubber cover back on, and used the brake a bit, a tiny ring of fluid appeared again. I reckon I've knackered the seating inside the caliper. My local bike shop suggest 'liquid metal' to seal in the old nipple, and then add a 'banjo-bolt with a nipple', for any future bleeding. Sounds like a plan - and as they've agreed to pick the bike up, do that, plus change the fork and final drive oil, and have a fiddle with the back brake all for £100, I've decided to give the DIY a rest for a while. It will just be nice to actually ride her again - I've managed about 10 miles since I started tinkering several weeks ago. Buffs
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Post by hovis on Sept 1, 2007 13:15:37 GMT -5
Sounds like you've stripped the thread Buffs , the bleed nipple should only be lightly tightend,it's one of those things you just get a feeling for (tightening wise)with experience,hard to explain in writing but they are a easily stripped item. Just put it down to experience mate. Hovis
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Post by honda on Sept 1, 2007 15:06:07 GMT -5
Now this DIY can turn into a bit of a chancy caper but no more than suggesting GLUEING a brake nipple in with plastic metal. In all likelyhood the threads are damaged. While modern adhesives are really good and have been used to good purpose for various other repairs I would be dubious about this repair. I would hate to be the insurance company giving cover to this bike shop. There are certain things which are good practice but this is not one of them. I admit I know of this being done successfully but I also know of failures with this kind of chance taking. Calipers are not that expensive even on ebay and if you have yours full of new parts, swap them into the other one. The only repair should be a mechanical one. There is an old time repair which mimicks early hydraulic bleeders and is successful. If the threads are damaged have them drilled out and recoiled. This will be twice as strong as origonal and will certainly not strip again. If you are convinced the threads are not damaged and the taper on the end of the bleeder looks ok there must be a little imperfection somewhere. Either way get a steel ball. Available from bearing supply shop or bicyle repair shop. It should be as large as poss but should fall freely into the bleed hole. Take the bleed nipple and file/grind the taper off the end. Make it as flat as poss. The way I have done this way back when was to face it off in a little lathe but filing or grinding will do. The ball bearing will center itself in the internal taper. The flat end will push the ball into the taper. The fluid will move up through the existing port in the bleed nipple. Dont give up. You can change the rear final drive oil in about 10 min's with two spanners and a little jug. Put a new washer on the drain bung. part num 9410914000. Remove one fork leg at the time helps keep all that junk around the headlight almost in one place. Before removing the leg loosen off the top cap while the fork is still tight in the yoke's. Remove the leg. Hold the leg right way up and remove the top nut while holding a bit of pressure down to take the loading of the spring. Once the nut is removed let the inner slide down, remove the washer/spacer/spring and place on a clean cloth. Get a drain jar and with the leg upside down pour the oil out and pump the fork in and out to remove all the oil. Turn the leg the correct way up and add some oil up to near the correct level. (oil levels in an earlier posting from me) Again pump the fork up and a few times this time to clear any air from the bottom. If this is not done it is possible for the damping not to work properly even in these basic shockers after assembly. Put the internals back in the same way they came out and thats that. A little bit of advice on the oil. Use fork oil/transmisssion oil of either 5,10,15w. Heavy oil does not work good as it will not pass through the ports on compression or rebound nearly well enough to be called damping. On rebound heavy oil will cause cavitation and on the immediate compression stroke the cavity results in no oil being at the ports, so no damper on compression either. In the wrong road surface situation this can repeat itself quite badly and will put you on your ear. In other words the wheel can refuse to stay in contact with the road. If you dont perist you will end up like most of the people today who just simply pay to have things done. You have got along the road a certain way, give it a go man. My way would be to ebay and buy a caliper. There are a couple of other fitments with the same caliper and almost any of the L/H calipers from the 600F's etc which look the same will fit but will not hold the origonal fat NTV pads. If you want to know which other caliper is almost identicle give me untill I am back at work and I'll look it up for you. Cheers honda
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Post by ntvnick on Sept 1, 2007 16:22:11 GMT -5
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Post by honda on Sept 1, 2007 16:49:30 GMT -5
ntvnick has given a good lead. The l/h vfr caliper will fit straight on and is the same except for the ability to acccept the fat pads which will not make much differance as most people do not use HONDA pads anyhow. (against my advice though) At 7.50 its worth a go. Cheers honda
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Post by steadythebuffs on Sept 1, 2007 18:12:30 GMT -5
thanks guys, just when I'd settled the matter by chucking a bit of cash at it I'm fairly sure I haven't stripped the threads because the nipple ( a replacement) screws in properly, and the thread on the old nipple was in perfect nick anyway (though the pointy bit was a tad knackered). I think I've damaged the seating. As to fixes, I can't see why a ball-bearing would sit any tighter than what's there now, but I'll happily take your word for it Honda, and suggest it to the bike shop, steer them clear of the liquid metal. Out of interest, couldn't a bolt of the right size, plus a washer do the trick for blanking this off, then I could add the banjo bolt nipple? thanks for looking up the ebay item Nick - I appreciate it, and I really would love to DIY 100 per cent... BUT aside from the risk that it's also proper knackered in some way, the waiting, the work, and the time involved in swapping bits around is really, really offputting after so much lengthy hassle already. Best case DIY scenario here, and I'm still off the road till the weekend after next. I have to work outside in the street, the dry daylight hours I've got spare are proving very limited...and I'm getting desperate to actually ride my one and only bike, not just crouch beside it swearing Buffs
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Post by honda on Sept 1, 2007 19:42:23 GMT -5
The reason the ball works is because it centers itself as it is not attached to the threaded part. If you have caused damage in some way or another to the seat the taper on the end of the bleeder may not seat properly. The ball will work even after haveing the threads recoiled and the bleeder being off center a little. This older method always sealed better than the later taper thingys. Cheers honda
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Post by steadythebuffs on Sept 3, 2007 8:39:40 GMT -5
The bike shop wouldn't countenance the ball-bearing method, and suggested a new caliper if I didn't fancy going the liquid metal route. So that's that - I'm back on the DIY trail, and have ordered the ebay caliper. whoopee
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Post by steadythebuffs on Sept 6, 2007 15:28:11 GMT -5
the ebay caliper turned up - seized nipple and pistons! a replacement was sent - one seized piston. Neither came with the mounting bracket, and each had various bits missing - a rubber boot here, a pad spring there - and the pistons looked ropey all round (plus a bit smaller internally than the NTV ones). But what do you expect for £12, right?
The returns policy would refund me £7.50 on an outlay of £16, so I'm giving up on White Dog Motorcycles (crasher999999) as an ebay seller they're just offloading junk, keeping the descriptions minimal so you fill in the gaps with wishful thinking.
I'll try and source one that actually is in 'bolt-on' condition - some ebay breakers guarantee no sticking pistons etc - there's a couple on there at the moment, though very pricey.
honda, a long shot - having established that the thread of the old nipple is fine (it's just the seating that's wonky) would it really be dangerous to try and blank off this 'exit route' using chemical metal of some sort? Filling up the nipple's bottom hole with it, and smearing a bit round the seating area, and the threads, chucking in a washer/rubber ring? The nipple itself is not going to fly off under pressure. Clutching at straws a bit, and I know you recommend the ball-bearing method, but I'd need to get some extra tools (and confidence) for that, and nipple aside my current caliper is like new! Buffs
BTW plumbers tape is disolved by brake fluid.
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Post by honda on Sept 7, 2007 14:23:06 GMT -5
You have had bad luck with the used calipers. Bit of a pity really as a good caliper would have been your answer. Putting a bleed nipple in the banjo bolt is not the correct place for it and there are reasons. When the caliper is in situ the nipple is at the top for a reason. The ports within the caliper all let air up to the bleeder. i.e. air rises and to bleed the system the port has got to be at the top. Now lets say you have to use a bleeder on the banjo bolt. The port from this goes into the bottom piston and then the fluid is ported up to the top piston where the bleed port is at the top. Now I dont know how many differant shapes the caliper will have to be turned to bleed it with a nipple on the inlet. You would have to pump fluid in and then push the pistons back with the caliper removed several ways to enable the air to get out. What would actually work better and does work better would be to have someone keeping the master cyl res full while pumping as per instructed with the lower piston installed and the top one ready to go in. With the caliper in the normal shape but obviously not bolted on and without pads. Hold the top piston as if you are about to push it in to the cyl but keeping the upper edge slightly out. As the fluid comes through the system the top cyl will fill up but the air will be allowed to escape at the top. When you are convinced there is little likelyhood of air being in there start to push the piston into into the cyl. The person at the master cyl will have to stop pumping to allow this. You will use more fluid this way and its messy. Be careful with spillages from the res as you push the piston home. Good idea to keep the petrol tank off for any brake bleeding jobs. This method has been used by many and with a little luck the last little void at the top of the cyl where the bleeder is will have fluid in and not air. This certainly is not the recomended way of doing things but I think you are beond worrying about recomended. As to the plastic metal job its up to yourself. I have taken many chances and learned along the way some were worth taking and some not but its a personal preferance thing. Plumbers tape will be unlikely to seal paralel threads no matter what the fluid matter. It for use on bsp/npt type threads which are tapered. If you are convinced the threads for the nipple are good but the seating is the problem. Ask around or go to a bicycle shop and get the ball bearing. I think you said earlier you had a new bleed nipple so I suppose you should have the old one in the tool box. Somehow try and get the end of the nipple made flat with a file or whatever. If you decide to try this method put the ball in the bleed hole and make sure the nipple has went in somewhere near normal distance. As I said earlier this is how early hydraulic bleeders were made before engineering quality was what it is today. Like any fix it job it cannot be gaurenteed but at least you wont have made it any worse and with a little luck you will have a bleeder. It has got me out of a few pickles in the distant past sometimes when the bleeder had to be drilled out. Sometimes when someone had more or less destroyed the thing and it had to be drilled out larger and re tapped to a differant size. Now the chance of drilling , tapping and getting a "normal" bleeder to seal in that kind of fix it situation is about nill but if it seals it will be most unlikely to start leaking later and it will work like the origonal. I would still say have a go. Cheers honda
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Post by ntvnick on Sept 7, 2007 15:15:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I steered you onto a dodgy ebay trader. Are there any bike breakers in your area? If so you may find one still fitted to a bike so that you can check it before purchase. I managed to do this when I bought a new engine for my XBR ( knackered head )
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