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Post by ntvnick on Sept 3, 2007 14:32:11 GMT -5
The fun has started. I am rebuilding my front forks with new tubes and replacing the knackered head race bearings with taper roller.
For anyone wishing to dismantle the front forks, the hex key in the fork top is 17mm. This is larger than anything that I had, but a 3/8 drive 17mm sump plug key from Halfords does the job.
One of the hex bolts holding the front mudguard on snapped, so have soaked the remains in penetrating oil, but will probably end up drilling it out.
I managed to tap out the old races. I used 10mm brass bar as a drift and it took some time to get them both out. The inner race on the bottom of the stem was a complete pig and i ended up cutting into it with the Dremmel then splitting it with a chisel. Of course I wrecked the lower dust seal in the process. I have the new outer races in the freezer waiting for me to tap them in. Interestingly it was the lower race that was in the worse state. There are little craters where each of the balls sit. You can see why taper rollers are a better bet with their larger contact area.
My next problem is the damper bolts in the bottom of the forks. They are solid and will not shift. I think they have locking compound on, as is recommended in the manual. Unfortunately they are too far recessed for me to use my hex driver on my air wrench. I will have to get a 6mm hex with a longer reach.
The manual is good for a laugh with a special Honda tool for every step.
This is not going to be a 5 minute job. Still once done it should be sorted.
Any hints and tips or penetrating insights most welcome.
cheers Nick
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Post by dpmiller on Sept 3, 2007 15:28:36 GMT -5
...and then you've got the fun job of getting the forks apart- the top bushes seize in pretty well so the sliders don't just pull off the tubes. No sir.
Those wee allen screws are tight for sure, locktite and a t go. copper washer make for a nice "crack" when they do let go; you'll likely need the springs back in to stop the damper tubes from turning, and probably need the forks in the yokes afterwards to knock them apart.
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Post by honda on Sept 3, 2007 16:17:59 GMT -5
Hi ntvnick. It is common for these bottom screws to need drilling out. The metal is not over hard so its not dificult a job. You need to use an 8mm drill and the head will fall off before you even damage the washer. Give the fork leg a little shake sideways at full extension to make sure there is no play in the bushs. If there is noticable movement replace the bushs. Bear is mind that worn bushs also have an averse effect on the damping. Also that funny book referes to checking the ring on the damper piston but doesnt tell you much more on that. Have a wee look at the ring whenever its inside the inner leg where it normally lives. If there is much more than 0.015" gap then replace the ring. The taper rollers are usually a good job but will fail also unless there is grease present. (water is these bearings worst enemy) Its a good idea to drill and put a 6mm grease nipple midway on the steering head. It takes a fair bit of grease to fill the void but it will be a long time before you will need bearings again. Your local Honda dealer should have the bottom seal in stock as there are only three fast moving seals in Honda's lineup. They should also have the allen screws for the fork bottoms as they fit loads of forks. For all of you out there who can weld either with a stick or mig. To remove a bearing outer from an dificult place put a ring of weld around the inner face of the bearing outer being carefull not to weld the thing in. Wait a few minutes and the ring of weld willl shrink the outer and it will fall out. The inner being hard to remove from the stem is normal. If you have real good chisel it can be split especially if you have made a small mark in as you had done with a dremmel but it is better if someone who has done this before shows you first. Your not the only one who laughs at the endless list of special tools. Most Honda mechanics do also. Cheers honda
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Post by ntvnick on Sept 4, 2007 15:17:58 GMT -5
Thanks honda and dp, Managed to get a bit done today. Before I resorted to drilling, I cut the short end off an Allen key, stuck the long end in a 6mm socket, used adapters to fit it to my impact wrench and out it came. Twisted the Allen key in the process, though better that than shatter my non impact sockets. The bushes were in good shape, no copper was visible on the bottom bush. I have polished up the slider, not strictly necessary, but it looked rough and when else was I gong to do it? And in a fit of enthusiasm, turned up a fork seal driver out of a large lump of brass on the lathe. I will put it back together when I get a moment. I know that I am meant to renew the copper washer on the bottom bolt, but guess what, it hasn't come out. Should I chance it as is, try and get it out, or put a dab of sealant under the bolt head?
Good tip about the bead of weld honda, when you mentioned that I remember that I had heard about that before, then forgotten it. The grease nipple sounds a good idea, but as it took 9 years for the originals to fail, I think that I will just pack as much grease as possible into the bearings. I must have been lucky as I have never had to change head bearings before. I have rebuilt forks on my Guzzis, but they use sealed unit dampers.
cheers all
Nick
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Post by derbyshirebill on Sept 5, 2007 11:56:23 GMT -5
Hi Nick. I was too tight to buy a 17mm allen key. I used a bolt with a 17mm head, put a couple of nuts on the other end and tightened them against each other (some people weld a nut onto a bolt- better). Put the bolt head in the hole, use the bottom nut to undo.
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Post by honda on Sept 5, 2007 13:43:15 GMT -5
Good man Bill with the 17mm bolt. I agree that if you have no other purpose for a tool them supliment with something else. Nick the washer should be ok maybe even without sealant, but a little would be playing safe. The reason it wont come out is probably because it has been over tight a couple of times and has expanded out in the hole. If you want some locally and there are no bike outlets use copper washers from deisel injector spill pipes. Usually available from the local van/lorry/car mechanic. Glad to hear you have the use of a lathe, great machine. You say you polished up the slider. Do you mean the chrome fork inner. If so make sure there are no vertical marks as this causes leaks. Its a bit like an engine bore they have to have hone marks or an engine will use oil. Forks seem to be the same. Rechromed forks can have very what appears to be a very rough ground finish and even new ones can have a finish that you can feel with your finger nail but as long as the marks go around the leg they will not leak and the seals will be happy. A load of grease will help your brg's but I see these brg's fail due to water as low as 6k or every few years. You seem like a guy who would have a 5mm drill and a 6mm tap so have a wee thought cause while the headstock is out you can get rid of the little swarf. Cheers and happy fixing to all. honda
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Post by ntvnick on Sept 5, 2007 14:14:54 GMT -5
Good tip that Bill, I hadn't thought of that method.
Thanks honda, I have finished one leg now and I did put a tiny smear of sealant on the bottom of the bolt head.
I haven't touched the inners of the fork slider, it was the outer that was in poor condition with the lacquer having tarnished. I removed all of the lacquer with wet and dry, then polished on a mop.
Yes the lathe is a great tool, using the machined driver, the upper bush and seal went in smoothly. I did look on the net, you can buy them for £50!
Re your earlier post about checking the top bush, on inspection the inner surface is coated with Teflon, would it be the same as the bottom bush to change when more than 75% of the copper is showing. None was showing through on mine.
OK honda, yes I have taps and drills, so no excuse is there then. I shall drill and tap for a grease nipple and never have to do it again.
I would do the same if I had the swinging arm off.
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Post by honda on Sept 5, 2007 14:57:01 GMT -5
I didnt pay much attention to the coating on the bushes as I had been told the ones on mine had been replaced but you could have felt a little movementy faint clonk thing when the wheel etc was out and you tried to move the bottom of the leg. All the invoices I had been given with the bike were for replacement parts. This was probably why the seals were leaking. I had to dismantle the lot anyhow and could not see anything wrong so I took a chance and put in new HONDA bushs and the little clonk is no longer. I may be wrong but I think the bushs were replacements with poss a little too much clearance. Thay cant be an interferance but they need to almost be. The proper seals have not leaked since as expected. Although at work I sell some aftermarket seals to those who are so miserable they wont spend a couple of quid extra. We will not fit these replacement almost plastic seals in the workshop as we have no confidance in them. Now the swingarm would be good thing to grease. I have looked at an old removed one which came along with my bike and there are probably a couple of ways to do it. Despite my thoughts on TRIUMPH at least they put various greasing mechanisms on some of their bikes. I see loads of squeeky seized suspension brg's etc and have to listen to a load of complaints about build quality but if one were to suggest oiling a bolt/nut or greasing something they would have a canary in case there would be a trace of anything ooze out that would make their bike not new looking. honda
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Post by hovis on Sept 6, 2007 13:30:08 GMT -5
well mate, no one can accuse your bike of looking like new ;D
Hovis
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Post by ntvnick on Sept 7, 2007 15:23:10 GMT -5
It is finished at last and back on the road. The worst bit was those head races, the bearing on the bottom steering stem was very tight. I reckon that they must use a hydraulic press in the factory. I have used 10W fork oil and it seems ok. It now goes round roundabouts without weaving. I have even put the headlamp fairing back on that I took off when I bought it. There was a slight delay as when I stripped the second leg, the top bush was worn, so I had to order another. The manual said do one leg at a time so as not to mix up the parts.
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Post by honda on Sept 7, 2007 15:54:43 GMT -5
Cant remember what year it was made hovis but its newer than me and I suspect its looks better also. It might feel out of place if it looked to well dressed while out with me. honda
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